Legislature(1997 - 1998)

03/03/1998 01:45 PM House FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
txt
HOUSE BILL NO. 264                                                             
                                                                               
"An Act providing for a negotiated regulation making                           
process; and providing for an effective date."                                 
                                                                               
REPRESENTATIVE JEANNETTE JAMES, SPONSOR spoke in support of                    
the proposed committee substitute for HB 264, Work Draft 0-                    
LS0910\L, dated 2/25/98.                                                       
                                                                               
Deborah Behr, Assistant Attorney General, Department of Law                    
reviewed changes made by the proposed committee substitute.                    
                                                                               
? Page 3, lines 1 & 3, "An agency shall notify the public                      
so that interested parties can apply..."                                       
                                                                               
Ms. Behr noted that this language allows flexibility to                        
notify the public in a manner that results in the least                        
cost.  "Interested persons" was included to clarify that an                    
individual may volunteer their time, even if they are not                      
directly affected by the regulation.  This is to allow                         
retired public officials, judges and others to participate.                    
                                                                               
? Page 3, lines 17 & 18, "The agency should strive to                          
achieve the balanced committee representation..."                              
                                                                               
Ms. Behr emphasized that the intent is to achieve balance.                     
It was not placed in statute because it would be difficult                     
to assess when balance is achieved.                                            
                                                                               
? Page 5, lines 16 & 17, "Members of a negotiated                              
regulation making committee are responsible for their                          
own expenses of participation."                                                
                                                                               
The prior version would have required agencies to certify                      
need.  The subcommittee decided that each member would pay                     
his or her own way.  Ms. Behr maintained that this provision                   
would result in meetings being held in metropolitan areas.                     
Groups will have to take donations and pay for their own                       
members to travel.  Teleconferencing will be used.                             
                                                                               
? Page 5, lines 26 - 29, Disclosure                                            
                                                                               
This would require a member to disclose gifts; grants or                       
other financial benefits that exceed $150 dollars and have                     
been accepted to finance the disclosure member's                               
participation on the regulation committee.  Ms. Behr did not                   
think a member would have to disclose their salary.                            
                                                                               
? Page 7, line 17, Immunity for members of a negotiated                        
  rules making committee and its members.                                      
                                                                               
Ms. Behr noted that CSHB 264 (STA) did not provide absolute                    
immunity to members participating on the committee.  The                       
proposed committee substitute provides absolute immunity.                      
She observed that the members would only advise on various                     
decisions.  She emphasized that the provision would                            
encourage private businesspersons to participate.                              
                                                                               
? Page 7, lines 27 - 30, Members of a Negotiated Rule                          
Making Committee.                                                              
                                                                               
Ms. Behr explained that this would exempt members from the                     
provisions of the Executive Ethics Act.  Public officers on                    
a negotiated rule making committee would still be under the                    
provisions of the Executive Ethics Act.  Member's financial                    
contribution to the meeting would be disclosed under                           
previous provisions.  This would indicate their position.                      
Criminal provisions would still apply to gross conduct, such                   
as accepting a bribe.                                                          
                                                                               
? Page 8, lines 1 - 5, Conforming amendment                                    
                                                                               
Ms. Behr observed that this provision would bring back the                     
existing law after five years.                                                 
                                                                               
Representative Mulder MOVED to ADOPT Work Draft 0-LS0910\L,                    
dated 2/25/98.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                   
                                                                               
Discussion pursued regarding the amendment to the Executive                    
Ethics Act.  Ms. Behr clarified that the legislation takes                     
negotiated regulation making committees out of the Act.  She                   
emphasized that they are short-term committees that are not                    
making final decisions.  Only their travel is disclosed.                       
                                                                               
Representative Davies did not recall discussion on the                         
subject during the subcommittee.  Representative Kelly did                     
recall some discussion on this matter during the                               
subcommittee hearing.                                                          
                                                                               
Representative James spoke in support of the provision.                        
Representative Davies expressed concern with the provision.                    
He noted that a person would not need to disclose close                        
financial associations or their employer.                                      
                                                                               
Ms. Behr emphasized that the intent of the legislation is to                   
encourage upper level executives of private businesses.                        
                                                                               
Co-Chair Therriault observed that members do not authorize                     
actions.  Representative Davies spoke in support of                            
balancing disclosure requirements to indicate a member's                       
general bias.  Co-Chair Therriault asked if there is a                         
problem in the current stakeholder process mechanism.                          
                                                                               
Representative Davies MOVED to ADOPT Amendment 1 (copy on                      
file).  Co-Chair Therriault OBJECTED for the purpose of                        
discussion.  Amendment 1 would amend page 5, line 17 by                        
inserting "if they have adequate resources.  However, an                       
agency may pay for a committee member's reasonable travel                      
and per diem expenses..."  He observed that the amendment                      
would allow agencies to pay for members.  Members would                        
still be generally responsible to pay their own way.                           
                                                                               
Ms. Behr clarified that the legislation would not allow                        
agencies to pay for a member's travel.  She noted that if                      
the section were deleted the status quo would prevail.  She                    
expressed concern with Amendment 1.  She noted the                             
difficulty in assessing the ability to pay.                                    
                                                                               
Representative Grussendorf spoke in support of allowing                        
agencies to pay.  He observed that there might be                              
circumstances where an agency would want to pay someone's                      
way to achieve balance on the committee.                                       
                                                                               
Representative Martin spoke against the amendment.  He                         
expressed concern that it would be costly.                                     
                                                                               
Representative James emphasized that it is a volunteer                         
system that should not be costly.  She preferred that                          
agencies not pay for member's travel.                                          
                                                                               
Representative Davis stressed that it would not be fair to                     
pay for some and not others.                                                   
                                                                               
Representative Davies observed that industries would pay for                   
their representation.  He noted that members of the public                     
might not have the same ability to pay.  He stressed that                      
the status quo allows agencies to decide.  He pointed out                      
that it would be cheaper to pay for one person's travel then                   
to send several agency people to the area the person                           
resides.                                                                       
                                                                               
Representative Grussendorf stressed that the ability to pay                    
would differ.  He emphasized that the amendment would help                     
achieve balance.                                                               
                                                                               
Representative WITHDREW Amendment 1.  There being NO                           
OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                                  
                                                                               
Representative Davies MOVED to delete subsection (c) on page                   
5, lines 16 and 17.  He observed that the amendment would                      
retain the status quo.  There being NO OBJECTION, it was so                    
ordered.                                                                       
                                                                               
Ms. Behr stated that the fiscal impact was not changed by                      
the proposed committee substitute.                                             
                                                                               
Representative Martin MOVED to report CSHB 264 (FIN) out of                    
Committee with the accompanying fiscal notes.  There being                     
NO OBJECTION, it was so ordered.                                               
                                                                               
CSHB 264 (FIN) was REPORTED out of Committee with "no                          
recommendation" and with two fiscal impact notes, one by the                   
Department of Revenue and one by the Office of the Governor.                   

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